Little by little death slips through my fingers. This probably sounds amazing, as if I have unearthed an elixir for life everlasting, but that is not true! (Besides would immortality really wonderful if trapped for eternity in this broken world?) No, when I refer to loss of death, I speak of my involvement with the funeral trade. For, where once I trekked to the soulless Crem at least one a week, I can now go weeks even months without visitation. (Though when they do come, like buses, it is invariably three at a time and during the most hectic of weeks!) So what has caused this change?
Well it has not arisen because parishioners ceased dying, nor because I scared locals with my pointy biretta! Rather it is another significant sign of how Britain is becoming an increasingly secular society. And undeniable fact when I know that ‘dwindling funeral syndrome’ is the shared experience of most every priest I speak to, save those served by undertakers of genuine faith or respect.
Across the nation then, priests are no longer in demand. Christian funerals only offered if explicitly requested. Today the norm is to place the liturgy in the hands of humanist provider or ancient crumbling cleric who will do as told, in short those who will not trouble undertakers with unavailability. This is a fact that leaves me with rather mixed emotions.
On the one hand I am saddened to discover yet another arena of life in which the church is moved from the centre to the margins. I am equally troubled that pastoral care is being left in the hands of those whose main aim is to make money. And I am further concerned that an opportunity for evangelism is slipping through our fingers.
And yet there is a positive side to this if I am honest. In the last few years it has become painfully obvious that many families I have conducted funerals for have absolutely no desire for any Christian content whatsoever. I have then stood at the Crem like a lemon, wondering why on earth I am present at the funeral of somebody led in by the tunes of Tina Turner, summed up in pithy platitudes of sentimental and secular poets and sent into the furnace with ‘I did it my way’ blaring out across the speakers! To be brutally honest I can think of a hundred better ways of spending my time as a priest on God’s earth. What is the point of my being present if spiritually unwanted?
A fact which leads me to the bitter truth. Once upon a time the beautiful requiem mass would have been the norm and not the exception in my parish. Once upon a time even funerals at the Crem would have been sincerely Christian in character. But that was another England, a time when Christianity was worshipped on these shores. We must accept that, for now, such days are past and that this has inevitable consequences.
Atheists and secularists might delight in this fact but is it really the victory they imagine? After all, I am not the one who suffers. Along with my fellow Christians, I will still have the gorgeous liturgy of the requiem mass to look forward to. Whereas the best our secularist friends (and those they dupe) can hope for is a poem from nan combined with a saccharine message from a pop star before being popped in the oven with no hope of resurrection.
It might offend those who see choice as a wonderful thing, but whenever I consider humanist funerals (or hotel weddings come to that) I am only ever reminded of those words from scripture, ‘forgive them for they know not what they do.’ As Britain delights in grabbing hold of its new found secular identity it seems totally oblivious to the fact that so much meaning, beauty and ultimately life is, in fact, slipping through their fingers.
Perversely then: it is as the church loses its grip on death that death itself gets stronger for the society in which we live.
I have never understood exactly why secular funerals have to be such bizarrely glib affairs. I have been to a few secular funerals which have been artistically beautiful in their own way. One had a string quartet playing some very nice classical music, while another had some choreographed butterfly releases after an interesting reading of GWF Hegel. (At least there was a little intellectual content on that one.)
For those like ourselves who prefer the requiem mass, even that seems trite, but at least it had some artistic beauty. It’s not their favorite Metallica tune playing from CD while the creepy nondescript door closes after the body has been placed on the Conveyor Belt to Oblivion.
The observation of fewer Christian funeral services is interesting. IMO, It says more about the surviving family members than it says about the deceased. Have you also seen more conflicted families? I mean, more families who argue over a Christian burial vs a secular something? Is there a possibility that there is a silent Christian minority in some families?
yes undergroundpewster I think you pick something up here. I also, lamentably, find Christians who opt for the crem option over the church out of a sense of ‘not wanting to upset/ challenge/ whatever?’ other relatives and friends. As the world gets more secular there is a large rump of people who, though they attend church, want to also sit in and of the world and are embarrassed to bring their faith into the public domain…
About six weeks ago I was asked to operate the sound system at a funeral in our parish church. It was not until after I had agreed (I try to give availability at funerals either operating the sound or as sidesman a high priority) that I discovered that there was to be no organ music nor hymns. Instead there were four Elvis Presley songs – including bizarrely Devil in Disguise – plus Leonard Cohen’s Halleluja, which despite its title is singularly unsuitable for singing in church. Needless to say I have told the Rector (who was on holiday at the time) that I will not assist at any funeral in future where such “music” is the only required content.
Phrases like ‘passed away’ or ‘passed on’ are useless euphemisms that don’t help either. I always talk of death and dying – not any of these pathetic cosy-up phrases. Death is death. Calling it something else changes absolutely nothing.
Undergroundpewster,
I can’t speak to what goes on in Britain, but I can speak from my perspective as an Anglican priest in South Dakota, USA. We have a lot of Lakota (Native American Indians) in South Dakota who are Anglican (long story I will be happy to explain if you want to know why that is). Certainly there is a huge following of Nativist religion as well as Christianity, which is often seen as a White Man’s religion. So, funerals are always a bit dicey affairs, as some members want a Native religion funeral and some what a Christian. Usually what ends up happening is that the funeral proper is Christian and then the graveside service has the Lakota medicine man with drums and such doing his thing as well.
am trying to work out why posts are not showing….testing, testing one two three
“I will still have the gorgeous liturgy of the requiem mass to look forward to. Whereas the best our secularist friends (and those they dupe) can hope for is a poem from nan combined with a saccharine message from a pop star before being popped in the oven with no hope of resurrection.”
Yeh, because obviously secularists are all cultureless philistine proles and all meaningful art ever created has come from the Christian tradition.
religious intolerance par excellence.
You were grossly traduced in the Courier; I don’t really understand what the Church of England is about, having moved from Calvinism to Catholicism, but I am glad that you wish more dignity and respect – both for God and the dead. And it’s good to see an institution generally regarded as the God Department of the English Establishment making headlines.
I’ve just heard of a “drive-through” cremation in another town – that was how the dead man’s daughter described it – her mother dropped off the coffin at the crem, didn’t stay and went off to a brief Methodist service and tea-party elsewhere.
Tomasz- I will happily accompany you to the crem on any day you choose and let us watch. Or to any hotel wedding and compare it to a church one. It is – of course- only my opinion but secular offices lack so much which devotional ones contain. And I know MANY secular chums who would agree. Your point seems valid but it is not born out by my experience
At my grandmother’s funeral the vicar said, “…But I think it was her faith in God that kept her going…”. I don’t know what my grandmother’s religious beliefs were, but we were fairly close and she had never mentioned religion, so I looked at the vicar quizzically at this point. My guess after the service was that funerals are often seen by churches as a marketing (sorry, evangelism) opportunity, regardless of the deceased’s beliefs.
I’m sure the conflicts arising when the family have different opinions about the service run in all directions. It’s not only Christians who can be a poor, persecuted minority.
Can’t we accept that different people have different preferences without labelling them as tacky or glib? For many people a religious funeral may seem impersonal or irrelevant. But it’s each to their own, isn’t it? If people lived a life full of cheesy music and would really like to be remembered in this way, then why ever not?
Judge not…?
So Archeroftheforest, you think that the Christian ceremony is the real thing (“the funeral proper”) and the Lakota ceremony (“the medicine man with drums and such doing his thing”) is just something to be grudgingly tolerated.
As part Lokota myself and the great grandson of a Lokota chief I find your response prejudiced, arrogant and totally offensive.
You’re my sort of bloke Father Ed… or is it Ted.
I think that most cremations I have been to that have been run by a Humanist have all been more than off key…. wrong names, forgotten children, dreadful music and that ghastly chimney. Give me a good burial with a proper vicar anytime. Its the difference between Cods Roe and Caviar…
“I have then stood at the Crem like a lemon, wondering why on earth I am present at the funeral of somebody led in by the tunes of Tina Turner, summed up in pithy platitudes of sentimental and secular poets and sent into the furnace with ‘I did it my way’ blaring out across the speakers!”
Why ARE you present exactly?
“To be brutally honest I can think of a hundred better ways of spending my time as a priest on God’s earth.”
Then by all means go do and do them.
Oh…. And it’s not God’s earth. We don’t own the earth, neither does YOUR God. We merely have the good fortune to live on it. And we need to start looking after it a bit better rather than waiting for the landlord to do it for us. We need to grow up.
“Isn’t it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”
Douglas Adams
What a hateful, bigoted and snotty tirade. Has it not occurred to you that the churches are empty because people have better things to do than sit and be hectored by fat, ill-mannered layabouts such as yourself?
… “the best our secularist friends (and those they dupe) can hope for is a poem from nan combined with a saccharine message from a pop star before being popped in the oven with no hope of resurrection”. What a misrepresentation!
Both my parents had humanist funerals, at their wish. Both events were deeply moving, very meaningful, and totally representative of the person whose life they were commemorating. No ‘poems from nan’ – but some beautiful music (carefully chosen by my mother, in her case, who planned her funeral meticulously and even left the Boccherini cello piece and other clips on a single convenient CD with written notes about the timings), and insightful, affectionate speeches from people who had known and loved them.
By contrast, some of the emptiest funerals I have attended have followed the traditional religious form, with a clergyman drafted in whose acquaintance with the deceased must have been fleeting at best.
It’s not surprising that your comments have been picked up by the national media when they are such a complete travesty. I do hope the resulting furore will give you the opportunity to reconsider your views.
As a funeral director in the UK for several long years, I have on many occasions found the need to remind families that if they feel the necessity for ministers to take a service at a crematorium, they must also accept that there has to be an element of religious content.
So many families these days see non-RC priests as just some form MC at a funeral, which to my mind is both insulting and insensitive.
I recall, from 20 years back, where a lady who had converted from RC to Jehovahs Witness, asked me to arrange her mother’s funeral.
She envisaged a mass at the local RC church, followed by committal at the crematorium overseen by her colleagues from Kingdom Hall. (The ultimate mix and match?)
Many sleepless nights later, I arrived at a compromise. The RC priest won – either all or nothing!
Poor Father Ed. It’s hard to feel ignored, isn’t it?
http://tinyurl.com/yjl9ppk
“the best our secularist friends (and those they dupe) can hope for is a poem from nan combined with a saccharine message from a pop star before being popped in the oven with no hope of resurrection”.
Do you not feel this is somewhat insulting to someones wish for their own funeral?
The problem you face is one of demographics – there are simply not as many people who believe the things you do. Moreover, in the coming years, the decline in christians is set to increase as the average age in congregations is very high.
I appreciate you may wish more people believed in the ideas you claim are true. They dont. And criticising someones funeral will not change that.
I have been to some funerals led by clergy – who clearly had little or no knowledge of the deceased and were simply ‘doing the usual’.
I have been to some funerals led by non-clergy – where we spent half an hour listening to the deceased’s favourite music and poetry before the box was hurriedly shoved in the slot.
I have been to some funerals led by clergy who had taken time to speak to the deceased, or their family of the deceased and were able to offer a service which was based on and relevant to the deceased, their personality etc.
I have been to funerals led by non-clergy, where the content was carefully chosen, and relevant to the deceased, their personality etc.
I appreciate that some people will feel that there is a ‘right way’ for funerals to be done, particular things which should always be done, certain things which should not be done. But I think it’s more important that the funeral should be relevant to the wishes of the deceased, or what the family consider the wishes would have been, than that it should follow a prescribed format. Some clergy do this, and do it well. Some don’t attempt to do it at all.
Excellant post Fenris – I think you hit the nail on the head.
Funerals should be a reflection of the deceased…not a platform for their family to use their beliefs (or lack of them) and pretend they were shared by their loved one.
It seems that the author of this piece just wanted to try and insult people who don’t believe as he does. All this shows is the lack of tolerance and narrow minded attitude that the author possesses.
I have attended funerals in churches, and funerals in cremetoriums. I honestly don’t think the setting is important – what is important is that the service reflects the individual you’re there to remember – whether that be with hymns, and bible passages..or with rock and roll numbers and memories from family and friends.
I think this article just shows that the church on the whole doesn’t deal well with the fact that people are “growing out” of needing their god.
I’m sure that for someone who is religious, a requiem mass or other devotional ceremony in a church is a wonderful and spiritually uplifting experience.
But religious rituals are only meaningful if one subscribes to the religion in question.
For someone who isn’t religious, a church ceremony is the experience of sitting on a hard bench in a massive, draughty room, while someone up at the front drones a load of repetitive and unoriginal phrases that they have said so often that they have become devoid of any real passion or meaning. Depending on denomination, every so often the congregation reply, eg:
Priest: “May the Lord be with you.”
Congregation: “Hurr-nurr-nurr eee-woo” (I understand this is “and also with you” but you’d never get that from most congregations I’ve heard.)
Forgive me, but hurr-nurr-nurr eee-woo is neither a celebration of the deceased, nor of God. There is no sincerity or emotion on the part of those saying it. It’s just what they’re “supposed” to say.
I find devotional church ceremonies just as tedious, meaningless, and faintly ridiculous, as you find secular ceremonies. Each to their own.
What I *do* agree with is that there is no point inviting a priest to a secular ceremony merely for ‘decoration’, and I’m sorry that your faith and calling was abused in such a way.
Trust me, Father, when it comes to my Humanist funeral, the absence of Tina Turner will be as notable as the absence of god or jesus. The difference being, of course, that while Tina Turner is a real person, the others…
I think I understand why you feel marginalised and unwanted, but you’re going to have to get used to the fact that christianity in the UK is a dying fad.
Incidentally, I have fairly recently attended a Humanist funeral, and found the focus on the deceased and his family more warming and inclusive than any reference to superstition.
It is vaguely possible that the deceased didn’t want a Christian burial and communicated this to their relatives prior to death. Just a thought. My parents are at that point now where they are giving some deliberation as to how they want to be sent off. Obviously we will abide by their wishes; it would seem the least we can do even if we don’t share their beliefs.
I’ve been to christian funerals that have ranged from beautiful to downright sickening – listening to priests dress up the deceased as some sort of saint (as if their own lives, truthfully told, weren’t worthy of the house of your god).
Pop music is the last thing I’d want to have played at my funeral but that does not give me (nor you) the right to sneer at someone else who thinks differently.
“the best our secularist friends (and those they dupe) can hope for is a poem from nan combined with a saccharine message from a pop star before being popped in the oven with no hope of resurrection”.
I’ll take that over the posturing and ignorance of a clergyman any day.
It’s a sign of the times that more and more people are leaving religion and those who had years ago are no longer shamed into having Christian burials.
Honestly, in this day and age I doubt the average parish vicar could name more than 20 people in his church and probably wouldn’t know much more than the name of those he could.
People simply don’t care about religion anymore – Christianity has had is 2,000 years, (2,500 – 3,000 years being about the right length of time for most world religions), it’s just an un-needed hang over from the dark ages.
Is it not the case that funerals will become more ‘secular’ as the cycle of change brings about the way that funerals were originally conducted rather than the way that a religion deems they should be conducted. Our ancestors celebrated the life of the deceased not the image of an omnipresent being and/or his son. If someone wants to be buried/burned and have their favourite music playing in the background it is their choice. If christianity feels it is suffering because of fredom of choice it is not following the values of christianity but more of feeling unwanted/unloved. What have the so called christian faiths done to allieviate the suffering caused in the world for individuals who do need to attend church to be good people.
It is articles such as this that turn people away from their faith!!!
Well I agree with Ed if you dont want an RC funeral dont ask an RC priest to attend your funeral.
People like PAUL HUGO coming here on the bandwagon just to insult the guy , you have no idea who Ed is or what he does for his community/parish he is involved with but I would bet its a hell of a lot more than you do. Do you feel proud to insult a religious man from the saftey of your computer screen. I suggest you get a life, a job and some kind of personality.
TWAT!
Despite being an atheist, I can’t help but agree with certain aspects of your commentary. The trivialisation of major life events into an excuse to play a banal piece of pop music could indeed be seen to cheapen and trivialise those events. And the presence of a clergyman at such an event where the participants have clearly only requested it by default is fairly pointless and could be seen as a waste of the clergyman’s time.
Where we disagree, obviously, is that I see the real problem as being the shortage of good secular alternatives. If you think about arranging a funeral, the first person you think of to lead that is a member of the clergy because they have the right experience and, not to put too fine a point on it, the right demeanour. Yes, it is possible for a clergyman to be clearly just going through the motions, but most seem to be capable of a little more than that. I know there are secular alternatives out there, but finding one requires a lot more presence of mind and a greater willingness to break from our cultural norms than just asking the local vicar to attend.
Regarding the choice of music, banal choices are not the preserve of secularists. Choosing Tina Turner or My Way is not fundamentally any more banal than choosing one of the default pieces of classical music that always get played at funerals. Some relatives may make banal choices because they don’t know any better, others because they are not in a frame of mind to think of anything more original, but being religious doesn’t give someone a monopoly on culture (though it may be true that religion has been a greater inspiration over the years to the composers of music that is in turn inspiring rather than banal).
Where you start stepping on toes, though, is when you start being condescending about those choosing secular funerals knowing not what they do. For those who claim to be religious to some degree, choosing a secular funeral is just plain odd. But for those who are atheist it is a choice based on knowledge as clear and certain as yours. Would you be so condescending towards a Hindu who chose a Hindu funeral? I think not.
“It might offend those who see choice as a wonderful thing, but whenever I consider humanist funerals (or hotel weddings come to that) I am only ever reminded of those words from scripture, ‘forgive them for they know not what they do.’”
I think many clergy would do well to remember that the elevated position that ordination gives you (“Bless you and remain with you always” instead of “Bless us and remain with us always”) is not a licence to patronise in the manner of a vicar from an 18th century novel.
Whereas the best our secularist friends (and those they dupe) can hope for is a poem from nan combined with a saccharine message from a pop star before being popped in the oven with no hope of resurrection.
That’s for God to decide, not you, sir.
See you’re mentioned the The Times today, Ed. Gosh, you have stirred up a hoo-ha.
I’ve been getting nasty comments (which I won’t publish) from an anonymous troll since I blogged about you. They include,
“Your piece here looks like its written by a moron trying to get attention how very sad for a women of your ripe old age. I suggest you do a little more with your time maybe help a community like Father Ed does and not use your time to be a bitter old fool. I assume you wont be letting this on your attention seeking web site as it doesnt stroke your pathetic ego but I know you will read it.”
Is this admirer a parishioner of yours, I wonder?
Dear Father Ed,
BBC Radio called me some hours ago with an invitation to participate in a radio debate on your comments. They tracked me down through my own non-profit cemetery initiative Perpetua’s Garden (http://perpetuasgarden.org) hoping I would take the “alternative” side in the question of “Tina Turner-esque” funerals. I did not give them an answer – they in any case still needed to find the “traditionalist”.
I suspect I am the wrong person and will decline. But I would make some comments here:
Death is the last and most personal event in every human life – of an atheist’s, a humanist’s, an Anglican’s, of everyone’s. As such, absolute freedom should be allowed to celebrate as the individual wants, however deeply we may lament their choices or lack of interest. This includes Tina Turner music, an traditional Anglican ceremony, or simply abandoning the cremated remains at the crematorium.
This is inalienable personal choice – every choice has an equal right to exist. But each choice also has its own place, and the place and the right must fit – if someone wants a ceremony in an Anglican church, the Anglican Church should have some say in what is allowed. If what they want is unacceptable to the Church, then perhaps the Church is not the right place for them.
We may deeply lament the fact that such superficial attention is given in our society to such an important transition and sincerely believe we know better. But if that is so, then it is up to us to convince others of its importance, show them that how we celebrate a life and memorialize it is not irrelevent. If people are moving away from religious funerals, then evidently the Church needs to learn something – not to change its views, but to teach them in more contemporary ways. But this is another whole story…
Thank you in any case for your comments – right or wrong, they stimulate debate and THAT is the most critical thing of all for this issue. Visit Perpetua’s Garden to understand my perspective – absolute freedom of choice is one basic premise of it.
Thomas Friese
Whatever my own personal beliefs may be, ABSOLUTE freedom must be allowed to every other person’s faith. Freedom to believe in this, or that, or even specifically in Nothing. If the state of Death has any reality, then it is by default a spiritual one – beyond a decaying body or some cremated remains, it certainly has no material reality. And as as a spiritual matter, let no-one dictate to anyone else what is right and wrong here. We can express and live our beliefs with regard to death, but we must not dictate or impose them on others – people understandably object violently to such efforts. (And anyway, imposed spirituality is quite meaningless – belief is there or it isn’t, full stop.)
In conclusion, it seems fair that Father Ed is reluctant or sees no meaning to secular motifs being aired in his specifically religious place. Perpetua’s Garden on the other hand allows absolute freedom of belief – it does not presume to judge who is closer to the truth and who is therefore allowed entry or not. It will provide space for each to practise in their way.
In Death we are all equal – “ROOM FOR EVERY HOPE” is thus the first and most fundamental premise of Perpetua’s Garden.
Ahhhhh Ed..one has to admire the open minded, non-judgemental views of the church…and you wonder why so many people are turning their backs on organised religion!!!!
My funeral I hope will represent me- and there won’t be any Tina bleeding Turner in sight. Perhaps I will be shoved into the oven to the sound of I Have Forgiven You Jesus by the one and only MORRISSEY.
Hello Revd, what an interesting story.
I have read about this on a news website in New Zealand, way down the bottom of the world. I am far from Christian, but I like your style. Keep on doing what you do.
Thomas Friese’s comments are the most agreeable for me, he is right in saying the manner in which we send our loved ones off is ours to decide without judgement.
Personally though, I will happily state any group, from whatever creed, who sends a dearly departed off with Tina Turners “Your Simply the Best” could perhaps be steered in another more subtle direction?
Also, I support Brian Pierce and his comments in regards to Archeroftheforest, I too noticed his sentiments appeared a little, shall I say ‘iffy’. Shame on you Archer, your aim is askew.
As a devout Atheist (ex member of atheist branch of Church of England) had wonderful ceremony for my father (not a Christian) led by amazing C of E priest known to us who avoided all religious claptrap throughout and respected all those present belief’s and non-belief’s. He actually called me to offer his services travelled 60 miles to crem and did a brilliant job. Nice pastoral service from a state funded body.. Pity there are’t a few more like him around in the C of E who can genuine love for humanity before their personal dogmas and selfish, pompous preoccupations. Father Ed’s myopia is a great example as to why we should disestablish the church, kick the bishops out of a democratic parliament and stop funding these leeches who cannot see “spirituality” in others due to the whopping great plank of wood in their own petty little eyes. Shame on you!
To the Reverand Edward Tomlinson,
The part of your blog that bothered me the most is this passage below -
“Atheists and secularists might delight in this fact but is it really the victory they imagine? After all, I am not the one who suffers. Along with my fellow Christians, I will still have the gorgeous liturgy of the requiem mass to look forward to. Whereas the best our secularist friends (and those they dupe) can hope for is a poem from nan combined with a saccharine message from a pop star before being popped in the oven with no hope of resurrection.”
Sir, if you are hoping to lead anyone to salvation and resurrection at their funeral – YOU ARE LEAVING IT TOO LATE!!!!!! Salvation is for TODAY – once a person has died, you cannot help them – no matter what music is played or poems are read or anything you may say AT THE FUNERAL!! I do understand what you are getting at – but please Sir be worrying and witnessing to the LIVING – once someone has died – they made their decision- they need to face the consequences!!! God bless you and may our Lord continue to use you in the land of the living!!!
Fact is, Father Ed, Britain is becoming more secular and fewer and fewer people are concerned about backward and medieval superstition.
To paraphrase Descartes: “I think. Therefore I don’t need religion to think for me”.
It IS a shame you feel hard-done-by. Simple solution: don’t turn up to non-religious funerals.
– Jon
Great blog entry! You are spot on. Good for you, and believe me the only loud crass opposition you will note here and elsewhere will be from the people who are caught out. If they want to listen to crappy love songs as their loved one is wheeled into the flames, go do it in a secular house.
God bless the noble vicar in his specially woven frock –
so beautiful and ready to lead his faithful flock.
God bless the faithful man of God who stands and preaches daily
To share his faith in Jesus so brightly and so gaily!
And when, in death, the end has come – as it must come to pass –
God bless the sacred rituals the incense and the mass.
But what of those whose faith is dead; for whom there is no god?
What of the churchless, faithless ones for whom it’s very odd?
In life the church has failed to reach them with it’s vital breath
So why complain when they don’t come to visit you in death?
A lemon’s sharp and zesty; but when god is a myth
If you’re a lemon then it’s clear, the world will take the pith!
Love it Grahame! Well done you!
Dear Revd. Tomlinson,
I’ve been following this story since it came across my RSS feed on Oct. 19. Took me awhile to go around your site to get the feel of things. Anyway, kudos to you on the ‘death’ blog. I’m Roman Catholic in NJ, USA.
For those who seek a Christian burial, there’s nothing like the Funeral (or Requiem) Mass – full stop. If people, either the dead or those still living, want a humanist burial, don’t insult the clergy by asking them to officiate. And for everyone here and elsewhere in the media who are quoting the bible and/or laying down CoE law, it’s quite obvious to me that in this particular instance, you alone are the only person qualified to quote from Scripture or explain CoE practice.
Revd. Tomlinson, please do not be swayed by those who say that you must somehow or another accept everyone who comes your way no matter what. Many are called, few are chosen – oops, am I quoting?!Anyway, just focus on those that choose to be part of what truly appears to be a wonderful parish community that you have in Tunbridge Wells.
So, let me be the first to say “Welcome to the Roman Catholic church” – we’ll do it ‘your way.’
Good luck & God Bless…MaryInUSA
P.S. Very disappointed that it seems (at least on this side of the pond) that your own clery/superiors seem to have left you out in the cold on this one. They should be ashamed of themselves, but probably aren’t…
Ah, look at all the loney people.
Mostly fair comments, but some of us want Christian popular music at our funerals. I want Adrian Snell’s “Nothing but goodness, nothing but peace, nothing but Heaven’s sweet release..” which I know to be true (tough, sad atheists) from having previously almost departed. Requiem music I find to be largely doleful, miserable and ponderous, permeated by swirling clouds of doubt, barely penetrated by trust in God. Maybe the problem is the shallowness of faith in continuing life beyond the grave within the churches. If you come back from an NDE you notice this very strongly. As for some of the comments they are dolefully ignorant. No the church is NOT state funded. It is funded probably largely by the nation’s believing ancestors. The guy who travelled so far did it out of sheer goodwill. No the average vicar knows heaps more than 20 parishioners’ names, and is really hardworking. Many have to be persuaded strongly to take their one day off a week, so that they don’t burn out. Many have 9 or 10 thousand parishioners. Anyone think they could reasonably know even 30% by name? Personally I hate “the eulogy” which has become standard and is frequently rather unrealistic, & sometimes a total whitewash. Forgiveness,love, and hope in the Resurrection are much more mature. What can match 1 Corinthians 15? Yet how many know it?
Fr Ed, as I said to you yesterday, all power to your elbow. As a funeral director I see, almost daily, the awkwardness and embarrasment of parish clergy and families who’ve clearly never set eyes on each other before trying to cobble together a meaningfull sendoff for a loved one.
I do know and work with several thoroughly good and caring humanist ministers whom I have no qualms reccommending to a family if thats what they want. If, however you do not believe that “I (Jesus) am the way the truth and the life, No one can come to the Father exept through me” then why put yourself through the pantomime of Christian funeral service?
Fr Ed,
So god is sitting/standing/floating up there and hears tina turner in one of his franchises…..and shouts, oh no what rubbish music, that is it!! i am not letting him in heaven….or instead he hears a beautiful requium mass and retorts, Ahh This person is in for sure. me thinks not huh!
We all have opinions,wants,desires,needs. It always astounds me that the church never considers these things about humans, but only wants it’s desires,wants,opinions,needs. It scorns and sits in judgement of every human on the planet from the moment they are born telling them how, when, why, what, where etc. with indoctrination and dogma.
Leaving the debate of gods existance alone for the moment. to live in a world where i am judged, observed, and considered a sinner for just existing then to live in fear of the master deciding he might take a loved one from me or take me from my children/wife is an evil act of such magnitude that any human doing these things would be in prison and certainly not worshipped……And now we have at the end of life a human, still upset with the dead because they want/need/desire a send off of their choosing and Fr ed you cant find it in your heart to enjoy with them, celebrate their life in this world…no me me me is more important. I give you the church, Judge jury and executioner.
You wonder why people are leaving the church and wanting to do things their way….the same reason prisoners riot if they have no comforts and are harshly treated. Manking is getting educated and can think for himself and wants answers…and freedoms. And having to listen to a priest tut in his blogg about a loved ones funeral together with a story about the church ever other week and the mis-deeds of the church all add up.
sorry to be so blunt. I speak to many people and get this response to this question. both christian and secularist. they have had enough of the church even if some still believe in god.
Michael the music isn’t aged for Gods entertaintment, what an amusing idea! It rather shows you are condemning the church from a position of ignorance. The reason I promote Christian funerals is because they encourage prayer for the departed. this means we are asking God to forgive sins, heal pain and gather the departed and those who mourn close to his sacred heart. You may not agree, fine that is your right, but please be gracious enough to note that my desire for spiritual content is to enrich and support not to condemn.
There’s an assumption in many of the responses above . . . that the primary focus in a funeral is the deceased, and that whatever happens should be uniquely reflective of them.
Well, not quite as simple as that, is it? There’s the bereaved to consider – their feelings, their beliefs, their tastes – which are actually (in the present age) unlikely to be very congruent with those of the deceased. I’m usually conducting funerals for the over-80s who, if they haven’t attended church for years, often used to – who watch Songs of Praise, loved ‘Abide with Me’, knew the Lord’s Prayer, who have experienced war and all that that brings at first hand, and who weren’t that struck on Tina Turner (although Sinatra . .). But who is the funeral for? Primarily for the bereaved, I’d have thought.
I’ve recently been giving thought to my own funeral wishes, and it seems to me that I should not try to control what happens ‘from the other side’ as it were. It should be my family’s event – the work of creating it should be helpful for them. What I’ve found myself putting down is various thoughts about what might – unbeknown to my family (who are likely to be the ones arranging it) – grate on some of the people there, to whom I have been close and who know me in a different context.
And then there’s the ‘invisible participant’ that some tritely dismiss as a tooth fairy – i.e. God. But if, as a Christian minister (not an Anglican), I’m asked to conduct a funeral I think I can reasonably hope that I’ve been asked not because I’m “a nice guy who knew Gran a bit” but because I might offer a convincing word of hope from what I’ve learned of God. That the prayers I offer might actually help the bereaved (a) to give thanks for the life that’s ended (b) face the finality of death and (c) hand their loved one over to God. God (in a Christian funeral) has to be an equally important focus. Of course, not everyone in the room will have a faith in God, but some will; and some may (until that moment) never have really given God much thought. I find a lot of people have a rather vague sort of belief in immortality (which has no need of belief in God and thus runs counter to both Christian and humanist attitudes). Does it matter whether the deceased had Christian faith or not? Suppose some of the mourners do, and are fearful that their loved one is in eternal trouble because they didn’t? It’s never that simple. The aim of the majority of ministers, I am sure, is to pilot a course through this troubled sea with sensitivity in such a way that everyone finds something of help in the service and noone is hurt any more than they already are.
I have never done the same funeral twice . . in 27 years of ministry the service I offer has been tweaked and adapted to suit particular family sensitivities – families of mixed faith, accident victims, suicides, families with bitter unresolved disputes now interrupted by death, funerals where the deceased was abusive . . . inevitably, a basic pattern emerges – certain phrases and clauses that can, together, incorporate all these situations. I’m sure that there are Christian ministers who just trot out the same standard service – but often that ‘standard service’ has been evolved over generations; thoroughly tried and tested. But I would hope that however formulaic it is, it is never offered without a real empathy for the people who are grieving. If it comes over as formulaic to someone who’s never heard the formula before, then the celebrant has failed.
I think what most people are missing in this, is that Father Ed was predominately giving his opinion about being ASKED to officiate at a funeral by people who didn’t want a religious funeral at all.
What is the point of asking someone from the Clergy to give up their time and effort to prepare for and officiate over a funeral service, if no-one attending (the deceased included) gives two figs for religion and it’s place in funerary rites.
That’s like asking a doctor to come over and be there as you cut yourself open and sew it up yourself with dental floss! The doctor might look good standing there, but they’re not able to be useful and could probably be off helping someone who really needs it instead.