Comments on: Could I be a Protestant?

By: Administrator

Administrator — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:51:22 +0000

would you also suggest every policeman quits as well, leaving Ireland lawless, because from my understanding they were just as culpable.

I think we need to accept that -tragically- the attitudes and understanding of previous generations was deplorable accross the board. The 4% of Catholic priests who abused have let the whole church and world down and that is an utter disgrace. Of this 4% less than 1% of all the abuse was actually carried out on children- not that abusing teens is any better. But it helps tro understand what we are dealing with here. I would be interested to look at teaching statistics or those for boy scouts? Strikes me that all professions where there is access to children and youth will always need to be on their guard. But again would you close all schools Woggler- and ask if those associated with them feel due guilt? It is a strange argument you use and seems to be saying ‘look at this grot- I can beat you with it, regardless of how unfair that may be’

By: The Woggler

The Woggler — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 09:04:51 +0000

Sorry, I meant ‘religious’. And no, several million wrongs do not make a right. My original post was asking whether your church really wants to associate with an organisation that effectively condones child abuse by failing to take appropriate action. I know my conscience is clear, I only hope that yours is too.

By: anglocatholicus

anglocatholicus — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 17:31:28 +0000

Woggler said above: ‘As for Pol Pot and Stalin, their crimes were committed in the name of political ideologies, not religious ones.’

What on earth are you meaning to say by this – that these atheists who killed millions of people (and let’s add Herr Hitler to the list since he was not fan of God) are somehow more justified in their actions, than those wicked Christian priests who abused children, because they acted from political motives?

A lot of stone throwing. Hypocrisy is everywhere, and not just in the Vatican.

By: Steve

Steve — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 23:38:59 +0000

I don’t know whether or not those Anglicans considering the ordinariate have chosen a Patron Saint for this period of discernment. If not could I suggest St Margaret Clitherow, she was a convert from Anglicanism. She is certainly an example of making sacrifices for her acceptance of Catholicism. There will be sacrifices for you but they won’t threaten to torture your children and then crush you to death (unless the ABC really has gone as macho as he appeared to be in Rome!)

By: Petros

Petros — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:16:50 +0000

If one may permitted to get back to the point amid all the gratuitous squabbling that appears to be characteristic of this Blog, for many it is not either/or, it is ‘Shall I have a church in which to exercise my historic faith?’
Fr Ed makes a valid point so forgive me as an occasional reader who is unfamiliar with the depths of feelings on this particular pitch if I make a plea for those of us who simply wish to exercise their faith in the manner handed down from the Apostles and which binds us together in our profession of faith.
To deny us that is an insult to the One on whom our lives should be modelled.
Petros

By: Ian G

Ian G — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:09:51 +0000

On the basis that atheists often deny that atheism is a religion how could what Pol Pot and Stalin did ever be regarded as religious? Or are you Woggler arguing that atheism is a religion but that Pol Pot, Stalin were not actually guided by their lack of belief in God?

By: The Woggler

The Woggler — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 14:56:46 +0000

I have no doubt it does. The difference is, hopefully they will be duly punished by the law. The Irish priests in question were not, because the catholic authorities (including the evil Ratzinger) covered their crimes up.

As for Pol Pot and Stalin, their crimes were committed in the name of political ideologies, not religious ones.

By: Administrator

Administrator — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 14:35:44 +0000

I shall not do that because these evils were not done in the name of religion but against its clear teaching. Even if I did I would only do so if, in return, you consider the evils perpertrated by atheists….pol pot and Stalin would be good starting points. You might want to also assure me that no child abuse occurs within athiest households…

By: worcester fragment

worcester fragment — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 14:24:46 +0000

And of course Woggler, no child has ever suffered at the hands of an Anglican, and no C of E Bishop has moved a priest on…. Sadly no community is whiter than white on this. At least, despite appalling failures in the past, the Catholic Church in England and Wales is now held up by the authorities as an exemplar in the excercise of Safeguarding.

Fr Ed. understanding the nuances, no one should become a Catholic as a protest…, but as a non conformist…!

By: Anglican

Anglican — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 14:20:20 +0000

Oh for goodness sake man stop whinging and just go if that’s what you want to do. You know you’ll be much happier, and your self-loathing of the Church you supposedly belong to is unedifying.

Your full acceptance and teaching of the RC Catechism necessarily means a rejection of Church of England teaching in key doctrinal areas, even discounting the whole area of female ordination (Papal jurisdiction and infallibility, Marian dogmas as necessary for salvation, the compulsory nature of private confession, etc., etc.). Can you really not see that you are not an Anglican and should stop claiming to be one, and the privileges you have in so doing. You fail to see the absurdity of your position. Newman and co. reached your point and had the integrity to do the right thing.

Why should the Church of England create a special space for those who not merely reject the ordination of women (which is an honourable position) but who claim allegiance to the Catechism of an entirely different part of the Church Catholic, and in so doing reject the teachings of the Church of England itself?

You claim the RC Church is doing what the CofE should be. It is not. The RC Church is not creating spaces where Anglicans are free to reject key areas of Roman doctrine. Neither should the Church of England create spaces where crypto-Romans can do the opposite.